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US-GR-1-JE-1

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admin
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This was originally posted and created by James Egnor-Keil.
It was accidentally deleted due to a forum update error during the creation of Stage One of the Roundtables.

US-GR-1-JE-1
Description:
The Electoral College is fundamentally undemocratic.
Impact:
The United States Electoral College has served to make the United States the only democracy in the world in which someone can assume the highest position of public office without receiving the most votes. This system has undermined the democratic power of the People in presidential elections (e.g., Bush v. Gore, 2000) by allowing a candidate to take the presidency without receiving a simple majority of the national Popular Vote.
The present Electoral College system has enabled (or could possibly enable) the following to occur:
-The national Popular Vote to become irrelevant, thus defying the most fundamental principle of democracy: One Person, One Vote.
-Presidential candidates to focus exclusively on large swing states, ignoring nearly four-fifths of voters.
-A presidential candidate to win the election by winning only eleven states and ignoring the rest of the country. If a candidate were to take California (55), Texas (38), New York (29), Florida (29), Illinois (20), Pennsylvania (20), Ohio (18), Michigan (16), Georgia (16), North Carolina (15), and New Jersey (14), that ticket would receive 270 electoral votes, enough to claim victory.
-Lower voter turnout and participation in comparison to other democratic nations, as voter turnout is largely insignificant in states that house entrenched political party domination.
-Obscurity of disenfranchisement within states, as a state's electoral vote remains the same regardless of voter turnout. If a state were to suppress voters through various means of disenfranchising specific minority groups, the electoral vote count would remain the same, but the candidate to which those votes are allocated could ultimately be manipulated.
-A structural disadvantage for third parties via the First-Past-the-Post model.
Cause:
The 1787 Constitutional Convention approved the Committee of Eleven's recommendation that the office of President be elected by a group of people apportioned among the States in the same numbers as their representatives to the U.S. Congress.
Relativity:
All eligible voters in the United States, and by extension all American citizens, are impacted by the presidential election, as the result plays a role in the direction of future national policy.
Research:
Primary: The Office of the Federal Register (link: http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/)
Secondary: Discover Magazine (link: http://discovermagazine.com/2004/sep/math-against-tyranny#.UR69oqVQFK8)
Designer: James Egnor-Keil (james [dot] ryan [dot] ekgmail [dot] com)

admin
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I agree that the Electoral College should be reformed. The question is how to reform it. I think that there will plenty of proposals of "how" to add to this proposal.

Ever forward,
Andrew Evans
National Chairman

Duffy
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The debate is still there. They actually just copied your proposal and moved it here. And again, I think I understand what your goal is, but I think you overestimate the number of people disenfranchised, and underestimate the number of people that are just apathetic.
I will grant that your proposal may increase somewhat actual turnout, but it makes the problem with targeting campaigning worse. Where are you going to expend your resources? Under your system, in the states with the highest per capita population. As well, you understand, a state can do what you suggest already, this is an issue the Framers left up to the states. And I think your proposal is another way to dilute the one advantage the Electoral College holds.
I am still evaluating the whole thing, there are points I appreciate, but I hate the idea of making the system any more complicated than it has to be. And that is the problem I have with most proposals for electoral reform, they are way too complicated. And when that happens, I keep wondering what angle is being played for what purpose. There is already to much manipulation going on.

Duffy

gene
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Agree that EC reforms need more analysis. So far the only electoral reform we agree on (generally - not unanimously) is adopting Approval Voting ( i.e., One candiate one vote) for all electoral contests with one winner. It also adheres to Duffy's KISS principle.

Gene Chaas
NY CO

jim
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I strongly disagree that the Electoral College is undemocratic or obsolete. I believe the concept was a stroke of genius is as needed today as it was at the beginning for the same reasons.

What I do disagree with is how it has become winner-take-all. That change has altered the fundamental principle significantly.

As originally designed, electors were essentially awarded proportionately since people voted for the electors themselves and not the actual candidates.

I fee a realistic system for today would award electors based on which candidate carried a given Congressional district, with the overall State winner receiving the two electors that represent a State's Senate seats. That is, whatever candidate won a given CD would get one elector for that CD, and whoever won the entire state (based on popular vote) would receive two extra electors.

This would restore the proportional flavor, while maintaining, and even enhancing the regional influence. That was one of the main reasons for the EC in the first place, to prevent large population centers from running roughshod over rural areas.

Again, I fully support the concept of having the Electoral College and am firmly opposed to any plan that would replace it with a popular vote.

Jim Bacon
Chairman, Whig Party of Nevada

SteveZ
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There is a very simple "fix" required - the Presidential popular vote is tabulated by Congressional district, and the representative for that district is the "elector" for that district and is mandated to vote for the district's Presidential "winner." The two senators for the state are also "electors" and mandated to vote for the state's presidential popular vote winner.

For the first round of voting, it is exactly as above.

If a second round is needed, then the state senators are free to cast their vote as they see fit, but the district representatives are still bound by the popular vote.

If a third round is needed, then the district representatives are also free to cast their vote as they see fit.

if more than three rounds are needed, then they continue until a winner is finally declared.

If it is necessary to have a second or subsequent round of voting, it must be open to the broadcast media to present to the public in its entirety, so that all can see their "electors" in action.

What's so hard about that? In this manner the"electors" are always known and are supposedly folk for whom the public has already shown some confidence, rather than unknowns doing the unadvertised in some hidden fashion. The concept of Electoral College is still maintained.

...SteveZ

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