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I am continuing my previous post's theme on the Occupy (insert city/street name) movement, this time focusing on it's merits, actions, and possible support among the American people as a whole. (For those reading this on the MWP's official site, please read my earlier post on the movement on my blog).
Firstly, I want to talk about the merits of this movement to date. For those who don't know, the group that first organized the Occupy Wall Street protest stated the main goal of the protest was to stop the influence of major corporations in the federal government (in the form of legal lobbying and outright corruption), and in turn making the federal government less representative of the American people. Now in itself, that is a good and noble goal in my mind. The problem I have is two-fold: 1) You will never stop major corporations from influencing politics, only limit their influence to some degree, and 2) Since their start they seem to have lost control over the message.
My first problem is to me a realistic one. I don't believe I or anyone else will ever see the day when corporations don't have major influence in the federal government simply because they have always had an influence and I see no reason for that ever change. To be truth, to some degree they deserve to have some influence, just as all Americans do. The sticking issue is HOW much influence should they have? I don't think there is much doubt in most Americans' minds that major corporations and "wall street" have too much influence in our government today and in turn are part of the problem in our federal government. So in that sense, this movement had a good start in terms of what kind of goal they are looking for, I think they are just a bit too naive about how much success they could possibly achieve.
The second problem I think is the most critical to the movement. While they had a good starting goal, since then it has been muddled a bit by a mass of other left-of-the political spectrum causes. This ranges from environmental activists, labor union members, and those decrying the "rich" of America or the "1%" as many of the protesters for effectively screwing over the "99%" of Americans. They have also been joined by a plethora of political commentators including Keith Olbermann and Michael Moore. And while many of these may be just causes, having so many with no clear consensus or order to it will only fuel the argument that this movement has no real direction.
Another area of interest I have for this movement is how much support they could potentially get from the American voter.
At first, I admit I figured this movement would likely only get support from liberals in America and since they only constitute 21% of Americans compared to the 41% of Americans whom the Tea Party movement gains much of its support from, that this movement has little chance of gaining as much support as the Tea Party let alone surpassing it.(August 2011, Gallup)
However as first impressions goes, this one may be a little premature. Gallup's poll is a handy indicator but it's a limited one too because it is only asking those surveyed a pretty general ideological question. However thanks to the good people at the Pew Research Center, we have a better look at where this movement could gain some support from.
In a rather in depth ideological survey conducted earlier this year, they asked registered voters surveyed which of the following groups they most closely identified with:
Republicans
1. Staunchly Conservative- 11%
2. Main Street Republicans- 14%
Independents
3. Libertarians- 10%
4. Disaffected- 11%
5. Post-Moderns- 14%
Democrats
6. New Coalition Democrats- 9%
7. Hard-Pressed Democrats- 15%
8. Solid-Liberals- 16%
Now, I know what you're thinking. This poll seems to contradict the one published by Gallup a few months ago but take a closer look. While it would seem that Liberals have a larger base of support in America, one has to remember that Liberal doesn't always equal Democrat, nor does Conservative always equal Republican. There is always a bit of overlap.
And when trying to figure out if this Occupy movement has the potential to gain strong support from the American people, the Pew Research Center did us something of a favor by asking a question that goes right to the origin goal set by this movement. When given the statement of "Business/Corporations make a fair profit", only 39% of all respondents agreed with that statement. Furthermore, the survey also found that 47% of respondents believe "Wall Street" hurts the economy more than it help while only 38% believed it helped the economy more. (PewResearch, 2011)
So, after all it would seem my first impressions about how much support this movement could gain from the average American were a bit off. A significant number of Americans, spanning the political spectrum, have a good deal of distrust of major corporations and "Wall Street". But here's the snag..If the Occupy movement continues to loss their direction and not focus on their original goal of curtailing Wall Street/Corporations influence on American politics, they won't get the chance to tap into that potential support and will instead be written off as just another disorganized "liberal" movement. Only IF they can hone their message and better organize do I believe they can gain the kind of support to change the political game as the Tea Party has.
Finally, I encourage my readers to do their own research on this Occupy movement: it's backers, supporters, origins, demands, and it's actions to date. One thing this movement has going for it is it has created a lot of noise on the news networks and as such there is bound to be misinformation out there about them (both from its supporters and detracters). Doing your own research is vital to forming real opinion about any political movement, something I learned putting together this piece.
DISCLAIMER:
The views and opinions expressed in this work are solely those of the author's and not that of the Modern Whig Party or any other political organization.
http://people-press.org/2011/05/04/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typo...
http://www.gallup.com/poll/148745/Political-Ideology-Stable-Conservative...
And why must we form an opinion and "judge" them? Let them permutate a bit. Let's follow their actions, and not their composition. Let's leave the "knee jerk" reaction to knee JERK pros like Ann Coulton.
Thank you again for the good work WMPenn! I beleive this to be a potentially important political movement, but reserve my "right" to judge them.
As a Whig, I can clearly see the dissillusionment that causes this sort of rally, and the spontateous combustion. I'm surprised they are not burning effigies of Tim Geithner, the consummate "insiders' man". ( although I see he is choosing his words lately to obfuscate the truth.)
Never Say Never....or Always.
WMPenn: you stated that we can "never stop major corporations from influencing politics"... I agree, and the thing is I bet most "OCCUPY" protesters would probably agree with that as well. You can't assume that ALL protesters believe that we can eliminate ALL influence from ALL corporations. There is a lot of emotion with these protests, some things may be exaggerated, and for good reason- to get everyone's attention- the government, the corporations, and other fellow Americans. This is to be expected because to take a stand and be vocal and expressive, sometimes you have to go overboard a bit to prove a point, it seems to be the American way. No one ever gets everything they want or ask for- oh, unless you are a corporate elite- but if at least some positive change comes from the protests, whether it be some pay back from the billionaires that run the show or some new legislation to stop some of the disgusting loop holes that exist, at least it would be better than what has been going on.
Referring to your other comment about how the movement has "lost control over the message", I do not really agree with that. Considering that there is nobody really in charge and that this whole movement has been driven and spread via the internet and twitter (since big corporate media ignored it for the first 3 weeks) I think it has been doing very well and has a very straight forward message- AMERICANS WANT CHANGE IN GOVERNMENT! This idea of change would hopefully address all of the various issues that they (and I) are concerned about. You cannot very well expect the protesters to choose one or even a few issues to focus on- there are way too many right now. Could we just have a few ideas for change on the MWP website- heck no, we have pages of ideas, philosophies and changes in mind!
I have posted OCCUPY ideas for the MWP on the forums, I have applied for a leadership position with the party, I have spoken to a few party members etc. and really haven't gotten a lot of feedback, which to me is sad. Instead of analyzing the OCCUPY movement and wondering what they are doing or why they are doing it or whatever- which we should know by now- we should be supporting the cause and HELPING our fellow Americans get control (if they have lost it), or get organized or assist them as a party with similar goals that also wants change in our government. Or even stand up and take control for them if they wanted us to.
Why are we not doing that? We should endorse the movement and work with it and yes- use it to our advantage for recognition which in turn would be an advantage to our country in the long run anyway. Don't we have the same goals for the most part? We should be side by side with our fellow Americans whether they are "hippies", homeless, laid off, or whatever! Maybe some of us MWP members need to lose our jobs and our homes to get a more realistic picture and give some support. I have 3 jobs and I know I don't need to lose any of them to know what it is like to be poor or have some empathy for others and know that in this country- and WORLD wide- we are in dire straits!
Its time to @#$% or get off the pot- not just look at statistics and stare at the protests and wait for change to maybe come. If we don't do something, no one else will do it for us- although the protesters are trying!!
NixWiggy,
Firstly, thanks for your comment.
On the issue of the message of this movement..To me simply stating your goal as wanting to change the government is far too vague and too general. To me it defines all logic to have a movement with no clear message and "AMERICANS WANT CHANGE IN GOVERNMENT" is about as weak of a message that I could think of. Of course Americans want a change in their goverment, if you asked such a vague message in poll of the average voter, you would likely find a vast majority of Americans support that general consensus. To me, such a message is no different than saying "Americans want more money" or "Americans want less taxes". Of course a majority supports these ideas, it's because they are so vague.
And I'm sorry, but any movement whose only real unifying message is "AMERICANS WANT CHANGE IN GOVERNMENT" is doomed to fail because people are going to ask, "what eactly needs to be changed?". And guess what, there is no general consensus on WHAT needs to be changed in our government. Poll after poll show that a majority of Americans agree on rarely anything specific. Some think the government is too big, some think it is too small. Some think we should raise taxes, some think we shouldn't. Some think Corporations have too much sway in D.C., some don't. There just isn't a real consensus on anything so to purposely have such a vague statement is rather pointless because people want specifics and if there aren't any, they will simply ignore this movement and move on with their lives.
Just look at the Tea Party Movement. Their first protests had very deliberate messages, most were protesting a particular law(s) (such as the Stimulus, Bank Bailouts, and Healthcare Reform) so it was fairly clear what their message was: Government is too big and spending too much of our money. Now is that message still a little vague? Sure, but it FAR more specific than the government needs to be changed. And look how well that fairly straight forward and fairly specific message did? They are now a major political faction in America that helped shape (for better or worse) last year's Mid-term elections and likely this GOP primary season. I can't imagine they would have as much success if they had simply stated their goal was to change the government. Their sucess to me clearly comes from their specific changes they demanded of the political system.
So without a more specific set of goals and beliefs in mind, I don't see this movement amounting to anything terribly special in the history political movements in America. Should they however focus on a theme such "Too much Corporate Interest in D.C." I think they could become a very powerful movement in American politics today.
For the moment, I am not sure what to think of this movement yet and as such in my piece I just presented some data showing what kind of support this movement really could have, not that I think the MWP or anybody else should support or not support this movement. That is an individual decision, not one for the MWP as a whole to make at this point. That last sentiment however is simply MY opinion, not that of the MWP.
Perhaps not stating a purpose is serving more purpose for this movement than stating it. Without stating a purpose they have left themselves open to more people to join the movement.They are seeing a continuous growth with minimal exposure.
It seems to me that what one of the participating groups; the 99% are trying to say, is that the 1% that are in possession of the vast majority of our wealth and are happy with the way things are. Just happen to be the same people in charge of the corporate sector which controls our government. Leaving the other 99% to grease the cogs.
There are so many ways in which corporate government has effected all of us that to try and launch a movement with the potential to create change on one solid platform would only serve to alienate other citizens who are not agreeing with their current situation however closely related it is.
One example has already exposed it's self. The 53%ers.. who apparently would be part of the TEA party, they have already formed an opinion of the movement through the media's portrayal of the movement being lead by hippies. Even though putting personal beliefs and interests aside the core economical values of the Tea Party would place them in line with the protests. Being as that our taxes which they are truly concerned with, are being consumed by our debt to the fed. Which is headed by the same corporate structure and ties that have sat atop wall street since induction.
Had the media not drawn a line for them would they be willing to join the protest? If the Occupy movement reduced their motives down to a narrow view such as the Tea Party would anyone from this group consider supporting them?
I just joined this group today. Due to an injury I have logged some couch time this last week. As I have not seen very much in the way coverage of "Occupy" on t.v. I have spent much of this time learning what I have about the movement on the internet. I found this page through the Nolan Chart Based Political Quiz. An online quiz that determines your political sway. I joined because I have sought a political home for quite some time. One that i felt expressed the ideas of our fore fathers. The good ones who supported Americas freedoms from RULERS, what ever form they came in. This last election which I did not participate in(I did not believe any candidate was of leadership value)was the first one since I have been legal to vote which did not have a previously ruling family in it, Bush or Clinton, I am now 37. As I had understood, this government system was set up to prevent monarchies from ruling this great nation. However until now in my voting timeline this has only recently come true.
Or so I had thought, upon deeper reading and investigation, I have learned what I hope the majority of us are learning thanks to the information age. Our government and this great land of ours has been being ran by a greater power, one that I refer to as a Joint Monarchy. This core group of corporate families which have been apart of every major political happening in our country since the forming of our first central bank.
By launching their movement on wall street I believe "Occupy" have said what they are against and at the same time have left it open enough for you and I to join no matter what our political choice is as long as we want the government to be put back into the hands of the people where it belongs.
I am a sole proprietor, self employed and have been self reliant for the last ten years. I.E I have not had any benefits, or health insurance, no paid vacation, no guarantees in anything. Fortunately through honest pricing and quality work I have been able to weather this storm so far. We are not thriving but we are surviving. I have also spent some time trying to understand taxes and what they are used for.
I have no employees and share my work load with my significant other/girlfriend. I rent a home and have no dependents. The percentage of taxes that one is expected to pay at this tax setting is stomach wrenching to say the least. As I have come to understand, the IRS was set up to tax profits from corporate activities in order to pay back the interest owed to the fed for money made for us. However the taxes that they end up paying are nothing in percentage comparison to what sole proprietors pay. This is not a poor me thing just a statement. Im not making enough to say that I am paying a fortune in taxes. but what i can say is that the money they would prefer to leave me with would not be enough to sustain operation costs on my business the next year let alone live. Hence the push for many companies to incorporate. The land of loop holes where you could spend yourself in circles if you could afford it.
I have not lost a home,I have however been house less our home was some tents for the majority of my junior high and I do not have student loans. I do owe though. As fortunate as I am I do think that because I am not fortunate enough to be apart of the percentage that owns the majority of our money it leaves me no choice to consider myself as well as many of you am/are a 99% because if not you would be happy with how things are going
Which leads me to one question. According to my quiz results this is the Political choice best suited for me. However being that my class level in society has left me no choice but to be in ninety nine percentile am I still apart of this Party?
However during this whole process I have not felt that I could not participate in the "Occupy" movement due to the fact that by not stating their purpose they still have left an invitation for me and you.
I along with every male in my family have served in the military. I am not a pacifist, democrat, religious right, or republican. My faith belongs in the American people, and the belief that we will get up tomorrow and go to work to earn our own way which is what used to back our dollar. Corporate greed and misappropriated taxation has eaten away the backing of our currency. They have destroyed the faith in our ability to pay our debts.
When they started this war on terror our dollar was strong because our faith had not yet been compromised. We became involved with an "enemy" fighting a religious war backed by gold while we were fighting a non religious war backed by faith. In my opinion we are loosing. However maybes just maybe as a people we will wake up and unite to once again rejoice in a common faith in our America.
I will be going out to support the voice of my fellow countrymen in our disapproval in this Joint Corporate Monarchy hopefully with the knowledge that I have found the appropriate party.
Please correct me if these beliefs are not echoed in this party.
The government should be in charge of making its own money
Corporate america should be fiscally, environmentally, and socially responsible and should be paying the appropriate proportion of taxes
The war on drugs and immigration has only increased the profit margins of the owners of the private prison and prison related industries. providing them with a slave wage work force which is now in sourcing jobs from china
Campaign funding reform has a long ways to go
Prison reform would best be served by only imprisoning for violent crimes
By the people should mean by the people and not by another class.
We need to stop fighting wars for banks.
This is my inaugural visit and I know I just kinda jumped in with two feet. Hopefully I am in the right side of the pool.
brck, brother, are you Scuba certified? Both feet in????
SUIT UP! we're taking you down to 100' feet on the first dive! WELCOME!
I completely agree with much of what you stated here, especially the last four paragraphs.
"Joint Corporate Monarchy" ...I like that. I've been coining them the Modern Aristocracy, but I think I like your term better.
I do agree that the movement's direction needs to be shored up and focused... but not yet. Let the wild fire burn a bit more and see if any solid voices come forth from it. Perhaps it will finally find a leader, then become something to be reckoned with. If not, it will fade away after a few more weeks or so, most likely.
However, one cannot lose site of the holistic perspective of the message(s). Disgruntlement. Anger. Rights and lives being trampled upon. This is why so many people (and varied political persuasions) are drawn to the movement, whether actively or simply observing and cheering them on.
The one thing that drew me to this party was the statement about Common Sense. Something we have gotten away from in the past few decades, in politics, as well as the American community itself.
I think this (Occupy) movement screams out for someone to use common sense and fix what is broken. Unfortunately... common sense would also dictate that some sort of leadership is necessary for it to survive much longer.
Personally... I think every politician should be sacked, the whole system scraped clean and streamlined back towards it's constitutional origins, term limits set for Every office (incl. law enforcement and judiciary), and some sort of campaign system designed that allows a person who makes $40k per year able to run for office as easily as someone that makes $400k per year.
But it won't happen... makes too much sense.
"and some sort of campaign system designed that allows a person who makes $40k per year able to run for office as easily as someone that makes $400k per year."
Actually, all you need is for a campaign to go viral on the Internet. How you would do that deliberately is another issue.
Well, as we sit here and overanalyze the OWS Movement and what it means, the Dems are moving in to show their support and use it for what they can- which was kind of expected- see below:
"The Democratic Party moved a step closer to embracing the Occupy Wall Street movement as its own with the top campaign arm for House Democrats sending around a petition urging people to "stand with" the movement.
In an email sent Monday morning, Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee Director Robby Mook appealed for signatures to an online petition in support of those who want "to let billionaires, big oil and big bankers know that we're not going to let the richest 1% force draconian economic policies and massive cuts to crucial programs on Main Street Americans." (AOL News 10-17-11)
In another forum a MWP member didn't want to be "associated" with the "smelly" protesters in San Francisco.... I guess the Dems don't mind...but we are too good for that??
So instead of getting ourselves organized with some other independents and getting our name out there and getting candidates in position to help make some real change, give support and make a move, we are sitting by missing the window. I have been ready to roll and have not heard anything. I guess maybe we are just too small and not ready for anything serious, which is too bad.
Nik Swanton
Baltimore
It seems today, the person with the most money wins the election. I would like to know the least amount of money to run an election.
The Dems move to embrace "Occupy" to deflect blame from themselves. As they are clearly part of the problem.
These same discussions, almost identical, came up with the TP movement and what Whigs should "do". And we chose to "do" nothing but be Whigs and continue to build out our highly intelligent brand of participation. Maybe too slow for some, but remaining passionate, yet very rational, and "smarter" than the enemy.
Which may in fact be exactly the correct course here.
If Occupy folks want to really change things, they can align with us. I think we should let them know who we are, and we should attract the cream of their crop.
In terms of making OWLS appear in their rallies, not recommended. Why? Its simple, you have then relegated the control of your brand to an outside party. One that is beyond your control, and one that many "middle" and "moderate" citizens might not be hip on.
In fact, in speaking to my clients and frends about it, I know they aint hip to it. Quote, " A bunch of effing communists and socialsits". True or not is not my issue, I do not want our Owl anywhere near that perception.
Patience Whigs, patience. We must continue to dilligently work towards our own shared vision. Not someone elses's.
Ok, I agree with the Dems motives on sort of supporting or trying to support OWS, and I am sure most OWS supporters realize that too, and want a party that is not the problem but will be the cure (MWP?).
But Whigs doing nothing?
Yeah, I can't agree with that- what are we waiting for- a total collapse of our country? Then we will move in? It is obvious that people want change NOW- not after the apocalypse!!
And as far as being worried about people's perceptions of socialism or communism etc.. Who cares? Are these people that lost their jobs? Are these people that have lost homes? I doubt it.
In any case, bad publicity, negative publicity- or should I say- stimulating or confrontational publicity, is better than no publicity at all! Especially in this country!! We should all know that by now since we see it everyday on TV with reality TV, SPORTS FIGURES etc, etc,...
If the Occupy folks want real change they will align with us? How? How do they align with us when we are hiding? They don't see us? They don't- at this point- have a choice to align with us!! They are still stuck with the same crap options as always- vote for a Republocrat!! They don't want that, and either should we!!
Damn, I just don't get it- I can't figure out if this party is legitimate or just hanging out to observe, or what?!?! Is it that we just don't have the manpower? The funding? The balls? I can't figure it out!!
If its the manpower, we should be recruiting, if its the funding, we should be writing letters and fundraising, if its no balls, then we should fold now !!!
This is frustrating as hell!!!
All I am doing on the "current events" forum is going back and forth with Jim Bacon about the same stuff- We need to quit looking at the small, insignificant crap, the labeling, the thought of how the MWP would "look" if we supported the OWS, and just do it- WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE!!!
FORGET THE SMALL DIFFERENCES AND LETS GET OUR COUNTRY BACK!!!!!!!!!!!
Nik
I am new, by invitation. A Whig reached out to me. Good work!
One of the reasons was because I have publicly tried to explain OWS, and I support them at this point.
There are excellent comments here, and I don't want to repeat. However, I feel I must stress that this is a very new movement. As stated, there is no leader. Each Occupy group is independent of the others except for their solidarity, so the are differences.
The process for the movement is based on consensus democracy. They are learning just how difficult it is to function this way, but it is how they involve everyone in a horizontal, transparent way.
One of the most important things that is repeated over and over is that they are evolving together.
I saw a video the other day by one of the founders of the Tea Party who had some advice for OWS. That advise was to not allow the movement to be co-opted by some other movement, party, or organization, as the Republicans did with the Tea Party. If OWS were to allow the Democrats to move in and control the show, they will have lost something very good. That holds true for the Whigs too.
There may be unions, and other organizations that join in the protests, but OWS is still its own movement open to offers to help. I really hope they are not co-opted.
At this point, the OWS movement has all kinds of people who personally are part of other groups, parties, organization, but they are individuals. That is good because OWS is about the people not groups, parties and organizations. All people are welcome.
I have spent a good deal of time learning about OWS, watching live streaming videos of a variety of OWS groups across the U.S. and can see how each group has its own personality.
I have watched struggles with the consensus democracy process and how they handle problems. It is a process that actually supports a leaderless process. It is a participatory process where all have responsibility for the group, and everyone has a voice and the right to speak their mind. Because of that, I don't see this movement moving at a fast pace. They state they are in no hurry as they are there for the long term, patiently evolving.
For now, I think as a movement it is great they are not tying into any other defined group. They need time to really understand and decide direction after the period of protesting.
While I support their efforts now, I am not locked into the movement. I am waiting to see what develops. My support is mainly because I believe they have a right to do what they are doing, and there is a need for what they are doing.
As far as Whigs go, or any other group, party or organization, the best way to have some impact is to participate as an individual in their consensus democratic process. Certainly they need people who have common sense and can participated in groups, in discussions, offering solid viewpoints.
Observing may be the only option for some but there are ways to enter the dialogue in OWS Forums. Why withhold the benefit of knowledge that might help the movement move in a healthy direction?
Because of the wide variety of people, beliefs and ideas, it will be hard to please everyone, so it is important that when the time comes, some basic goals be established that can get the consensus of the group. Not participating limits choice.
Personally, I would like to see an active Internet participation in consensus for those who cannot attend groups/teams and the General Assembly in person. It would expand the movement, but would take some thought, planning and technology to set that up.
The eventual goals need to be something that the group can really take some concrete action on, as it will bring the members into closer unity, provide direction, and give them some specific actions to take to accomplish the goals. However, this needs to follow upon the current get some of the anger out of your system then channel it to a constructive outcome.
I started out thinking what they were doing was crazy, they had no goals, the process was too difficult. However, as I observed them, I saw that they were able to recognize and deal with problem through consensus and I gained more respect for them and felt I could add my voice of support.
What happens next I don't know. I just stay open and supportive at this point. I have a voice, if not a vote, and the forums are open to both supporters and detractors.
They are very aware of detractors trying to destroy their efforts.
One thing that keeps me supporting their efforts is that they are non-violent protesters who make an effort to cooperate with the community they are inhabiting, police and agencies. How they are received is the bigger issue. In some cities they are treated well, in others they are treated badly.
One more thing. Don't believe the media stories, and if you see something negative try learn the truth. An example...the European protest in Italy on Oct. 15 had riots. That wasn't from the protesters, it was gangs and neonazi's that try to disrupt the movements protests with actions contrary to the movement. There is some of that here too, deliberate infiltration to discredit the movement. The problem with the media is they like to focus on that kind of garbage and give little or nothing about the good things about the movement. And some corporate media have determine they need to discredit the movement to protect the status quo.
It is 2 a.m. and I am tired, so I am marching off to bed. Thanks for the opportunity to try to share my thoughts about OWS.
Welcome peacelily, and thank you for taking the time to visit and enlighten.
If I may invoke "the Zen of MWP" for a moment, the media, like Pavlovian dogs, are trained to sniff bad news. From what I saw in local campaigns, they come near to being instigators. As much as a free press is one of the pillars of the MWP, they need to also check their own ethics often and police their own.
My personal intuitive response to OWS was to print out a few copies of my blog (my name appears nowhere. It and I, are property of MWP - all Wright!) to disseminate amongst those who appeared to be the core leaders here in Buffalo. I felt folks like this, who care enough to step out, need to know that there is a mainstream outlet for their political participation. And might be, not to sound pompous, MWP can help effect them in a positive way.
In all candor peacelilly, we Modern Whigs need as many souls as possible to come together around us to get "liftoff" , so we can ALL effect the type of permanent change in the system and its processes that will radically mitigate the role of money, partisanship, radical ideologies and even those shadowy conspiracies that many folks claim to "see" ( it doesnt matter if you beleive in them or not, our proposed system will interfere with them). Its all about citizens' knowledge, effective participation, and representatives' accountibililty.
To remain utterly candid, and this is my personal view, the sort of "objectivism" and "enlightened rationality" that underlies the MWP doesnt lend itself to virulent (meaning infectious, not poisonous!) street protests. So, I'd like to see MWP remain tangentially involved in these as long as the protests do not become poisonous, i.e, representative of poor citzenship.
When we, MWP, start having gatherings, methinks they will be more akin to educational fairs, rather than protests or demonstrations.
It's like MWP is where folks from the street can put their "ratiocination" caps on (as opposed to tin foil caps), refine their own message, and hopefully from that sort of collaborative process a new, widely shared and bold new vision of our common futures emerges.
You folks are the 99%, and we're The Party for the Rest of Us. So let's try to come together!
Hi gene, and thank you for the welcome. I have alot to learn about the Whigs, so bear with me as I learn.
I happen to agree and understand all you have written. I can't really add much because you make really good sense.
If I have something to add, it is about the unknown Whig existence. So, your action of taking the message out as an introduction is important.
Another thing I want to clear up is that I am not a member or participant of the OWS movement. I am an observer, and support the effort for change.
I don't want to discount anything that could offer hope of a real change in our system. That said, I am careful to watch OWS's evolution because I am not willing to support things that I think will be just as damaging in the future.
That is one reason I am here. I am interested in learning about Whigs because of the things I have read, and the comments made by people.
Peace
Peacelily,
It appears I owe you an apology. I was under the impression you were an active participant in Occupy Las Vegas.
In any event, I'm glad to see you here. You'll find a couple of other discussions on OWS in the forums as well as here in the blog entries. You'll also find the forums tend to be just a little more free-wheeling than the blogs with a wide range to topics.
By the way, contrary to popular belief I was *not* around for any of the original Whigs.
No apology needed, Jim. I support their efforts at this point and follow their evolution. I am intrigued by their use of consensus democracy.
I will look at the Forums with interest. Thanks!
Peace
Common sense has indeed become an oxymoron, Scottish.
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